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Posted by Deerhounds on March 04, 2003 at 18:14:15:
In Reply to: I don\'t know what to do... posted by CLH on March 03, 2003 at 08:58:47:
I do understand that you are confused, and that you trust your vets. But you know what? We can't just sit back and trust our doctors or our pediatricians or our vets or our car mechanics, for that matter! We owe it to our dogs to educate ourselves and make our own decisions.
TO ME, the risks of Rimadyl and Deramaxx are just too big for me to feel comfortable using them. It doesn't matter what my vet thinks on this one to me. It is my dog, not my vet's dog. The decision is mine.
For my money acupuncture is the best, the absolute best, method of pain control for post-surgical pain or mild chronic pain, and it has no side effects at all. Unfortunately, if you really have no one in your area, that option won't work for you.
I have also had good luck in my dogs with homeopathic remedies - homeopathic vets can work with you over the phone, so even if there is no one in your IMMEDIATE area, you should be able to get some help with this. You can find a listing of homeopathic vets here:
Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy
Lastly, herbs and other drugs are something worth considering. In that study I posted in my other message, you can see that the herb White Willow Bark is more effective than the human drug Vioxx, which is similar to Rimadyl and Deramaxx for dogs. It also was, in that study, found to have less GI side effects. You can get a canine version of White Willow Bark here:
Good luck!
Christie Keith
Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
Holistic Husbandry since 1986
http://www.caberfeidh.com
:My vets are completely medical. They think I'm crazy when I bring up holistic ideas and meds. As of now my baby is taking the prescribed med, and I'm worried. I know that this med is not a good idea but then again I trust my vets but I don't want my baby to be hurt in the long run. I just don't know what to do. I'm so confused. I've heard about LongLife and supplements like that but I just don't know if I should take my baby off the prescribed med on my own and put him on something else. I don't know of any holistic vets around here so I'm just going crazy!!
:Casey
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:::Can someone educate me on this medication and tell me what you think about it? Thanks so much!!
::Regarding Rimadyl...
::Although all drugs (and herbs) have side effects, I would think long and hard before using it.
::First, Rimadyl does have a large number of gastric side effects (as do all NSAIDs). It also has some pretty gruesome kidney and liver side effects, some of which are fatal. Not all drugs have "death" listed as a known side effect, as Rimadyl does. At least the nausea and inappetance caused by narcotics go away when they stop the drug.
::In humans, 75 percent of all people who developed gastric ulcers from taking other COX-2 inhibitors (which is what Rimadyl is), had no symptoms of it. It may or may not be the case with dogs, but it's possible, even likely, that the majority of dogs who take Rimadyl and who develop gastric ulcers or inflammation will not show any signs of it. And because all COX inhibitors (including the "safer" COX-2 inhibitors) interfere with prostaglandin metabolism, they all have varying risks for the kidneys and liver. In the case of Rimadyl these risks are pretty large.
::All in all, I'd prefer to relieve pain with homeopathy, acupunture, and herbs if possible; if those fail, I'd prefer to use opioids/narcotics (trying of course to find one that doesn't cause digestive upsets!), use herbs to relieve any nausea symptoms that might occur, use acupuncture for adjunct pain and nausea control, and not run the risks of the Rimadyl/Deramaxx family of drugs.
::I can live with the risk of side effects, but I prefer them to be reversible and non-lethal.
::One interesting study published in the journal Rheumatology in 2001 found that the herb white willow bark (salicin) was equally effective as the drug rofecoxib (Vioxx) in relieving pain, and caused half as many digestive problems:
::"The study involved 228 subjects with low back pain that were divided into two groups. One group was treated with 240 mg of salicin per day, while the other was treated with 12.5-mg of the anti-inflammatory drug rofecoxib (Vioxx®) for four weeks. In all measures of pain relief, willow bark was found to be as effective as rofecoxib, a member of a new class of anti-inflammatory agents known as COX-2 inhibitors.
::"COX-2 inhibitors are considered to be superior to ordinary anti-inflammatory drugs because they are less likely to cause gastrointestinal side effects. Previous
::European clinical trials have shown that willow bark also has a very low
::incidence of causing gastrointestinal distress but may cause allergic reactions in some individuals. However, it is interesting to note that more than twice as many participants in the rofecoxib group as in the willow bark group had to leave the study because of severe gastrointestinal complaints (7.9% vs. 3.5%)."
::(Rheumatology 2001;40:1388-93)
::I have also seen some statistics that suggest that the COX-2 inhibitors (Rimadyl, Deramaxx being the only two currently approved for use in dogs) interfere with bone healing and wound healing, two things I'd want to avoid at all costs after surgery, especially orthopedic surgery. (Journal of Orthopaedic Research, November 2002.)
::Christie Keith
::Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
::Holistic Husbandry since 1986
::http://www.caberfeidh.com
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